tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post7111293934249421579..comments2023-07-11T07:15:18.714-04:00Comments on The Ultimate Adventure: Rights: Natural Rights vs. Conventional RightsSylviahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06221464682706193091noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-15039065953219096892007-07-06T14:46:00.001-04:002007-07-06T14:46:00.001-04:00(What I was going to add earlier to the first post...(What I was going to add earlier to the first post concerning these practical enis this: That because each of these ends discussed in the first post are in part means to the happiness that man seeks, (where a proper fulfillment of all are required) he can not act contrary to one in the pursuit of another in the most strict sense possible (that is, direct intension). (This is just the general ruleAndy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-50516221934292114352007-07-06T14:46:00.000-04:002007-07-06T14:46:00.000-04:00What are the tenents of civl justice, and what are...What are the tenents of civl justice, and what are the tenents of divine justice. <BR/><BR/>As far as I see, an (true) obligaton is a moral obligation whether it is imposed by God through human nature directly, or by more proximately by another man. Its root is necessarily the obligation to "do good and avoid evil" "for neighbor as for self", where this is understood in light of man's pursuits Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-85987753697242833262007-07-06T12:39:00.000-04:002007-07-06T12:39:00.000-04:00Well, let's work with your definition here. I'm al...Well, let's work with your definition here. I'm all in favor of defining it as the power to command, depending on the type of justice it involves.<BR/><BR/>There is one ultimate justice, but there are two jurisdictions: justice between men and God, and justice between man and man. I believe that the rights of men in civil society can only encompass upholding the tenets of civil justice, not the .https://www.blogger.com/profile/01714070136249395568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-4886065123775412282007-07-06T10:29:00.000-04:002007-07-06T10:29:00.000-04:00I am defining a right as a power to command, you a...I am defining a right as a power to command, you as an ability to chose. These are irreconsilable.Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-46823625805531491022007-07-06T10:22:00.000-04:002007-07-06T10:22:00.000-04:00Andy: "Earlier I defined rights: "Properly speakin...Andy: "Earlier I defined rights: "Properly speaking (at least in so far as I can determine and can find to express it) a right is the power to command the obedience of others in regards to a specific obligation of justice."<BR/><BR/>I think this is accurate, but it depends on what kind of justice we're talking about. Justice to God, or justice between men? Because I may be bound by my association.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01714070136249395568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-45015562055861283102007-07-06T10:17:00.000-04:002007-07-06T10:17:00.000-04:00Are duties/obligations (moral or otherwise), justi...Are duties/obligations (moral or otherwise), justice, and rights at all related, and if so, how?Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-73950396236100741942007-07-06T08:34:00.000-04:002007-07-06T08:34:00.000-04:00Here comes the part where we'll have to proceed ve...Here comes the part where we'll have to proceed very slowly and carefully and do some refining.<BR/><BR/>I think one type of right is like your "government refrains" right: the the ability to choose any temporal action. The ability, without prior restraint, to exercise free will. This was a power granted by God when he gave us our free will, knowing we might abuse our power to choose good or evil.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01714070136249395568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-73568460366550685442007-07-05T21:27:00.000-04:002007-07-05T21:27:00.000-04:00What is a right? What is a moral right? What is a...What is a right? What is a moral right? What is a civil right?Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-70515307187625079532007-07-05T20:42:00.000-04:002007-07-05T20:42:00.000-04:00Andy: "If you hold that we have the intrinsic and ...Andy: "If you hold that we have the intrinsic and inalienable right to liberty, the right to "pursue any end you want, so long as it does not deprive another man of his equal life, liberty and property", then you can not mean the same thing I mean by "right."<BR/><BR/>I think we're in the process of discovering the particular place in which we disagree. Excellent.<BR/><BR/>A working distinction, .https://www.blogger.com/profile/01714070136249395568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-72347512650452184552007-07-05T20:16:00.000-04:002007-07-05T20:16:00.000-04:00Andy: You have not answered one of my important qu...Andy: You have not answered one of my important questions yet:<BR/>"Is anyway for the criminal to regain his right to life?"<BR/><BR/>He's either forfeited his life or he has not. He is not able to "regain his right to life" unless he's able to resurrect the man he killed. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Andy: "I would say (and the law does) that the claim to authority and property rests with the abused .https://www.blogger.com/profile/01714070136249395568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-27736962202365955832007-07-05T20:09:00.000-04:002007-07-05T20:09:00.000-04:00Geoff, either you disagree with my earlier definit...Geoff, either you disagree with my earlier definition of rights, or you are getting awful lose with your use of it.<BR/><BR/>Earlier I defined rights: "Properly speaking (at least in so far as I can determine and can find to express it) a right is the power to command the obedience of others in regards to a specific obligation of justice."<BR/><BR/>Do you agree, or not? If not, then what is a Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-87325130796823106402007-07-05T19:44:00.000-04:002007-07-05T19:44:00.000-04:00You have not answered one of my important question...You have not answered one of my important questions yet:<BR/>"Is anyway for the criminal to regain his right to life?"<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Andy: "I would say (and the law does) that the claim to authority and property rests with the abused unless they act (or fail to act) in such a way as to imply that they do not have the right, so long as that right is naturally transmutable (as property Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-64799985275243851372007-07-05T19:34:00.000-04:002007-07-05T19:34:00.000-04:00Life, liberty and property are unique and primary....Life, liberty and property are unique and primary. They are the things we have a right to at birth.<BR/><BR/>You have the liberty to do all these things. Play, work, pursue any end you want, so long as it does not deprive another man of his equal life, liberty and property.<BR/><BR/>Nobody is born with a right to have anyone besides his parents supply his subsistence. He has the right to pursue a.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01714070136249395568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28749242.post-79679852628666019152007-07-05T18:49:00.000-04:002007-07-05T18:49:00.000-04:00You continue to assert that the right to life, lib...You continue to assert that the right to life, liberty, and property are somehow unique and primary, at least in so far as society is concerned. Now I think I know what you mean by life and property, but what to you mean by liberty? And why are liberty and property so primary. Now you have said on many ocasions that these are man's natural rights, but I don't see how you can be certain that Andy Bodohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13025144744898580423noreply@blogger.com